For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
November 17, 2005
Press Briefing with Faryar Shirzad, Deputy NSA for International Economic Affairs, and Mike Green, Senior Director NSC for Asian Affairs, on the APEC Leaders Meetings and the President's Bilateral Meetings
Busan, South Korea
7:15 P.M. (Local)
MR. GREEN: Let me tell you a little bit about what the President did today, beginning with his phone call to President Musharraf at 6:00 p.m. this evening, and then I'll talk a little bit about the bilateral meeting he had with President Roh, and then the bilateral meeting he had with Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi of Malaysia.
At 6:00 p.m. the President took a phone call from President Musharraf. As you probably know, there is a donors conference on November 19th to help raise international support for the reconstruction effort in Pakistan after the earthquake that struck South Asia. President Musharraf gave a summary of the situation and of the long-term reconstruction needs as he sees them, asked for U.S. support -- asked for U.S. support in building international momentum to help in the reconstruction effort, and the President promised that he would look at ways to help -- government, private sector -- and would instruct Secretary Rice and the State Department to work with their counterparts in Pakistan to come up with detailed plans.
That was at 6:00 p.m. For most of the day the President was in the ancient capital of Korea, Gyeongju. He held a bilateral meeting with President Roh Moo-hyun, and then a social lunch. There was a press conference after the bilateral meeting where the two Presidents outlined some of their discussions. The social lunch was mostly a social lunch. It included the First Lady and the First Lady of Korea. So I want to tell you a bit about the agenda and the topics in their bilateral meeting, which took place before the press conference and the lunch.
The two Presidents first reviewed briefly the accomplishments of the alliance between the United States and the Republic of Korea over the past few years. And as President Roh said at his press conference, it's an impressive list of things, beginning here on the peninsula, where we have agreed with the Republic of Korea and have begun the process of realigning our forces, moving out of the Yungsan Garrison in Seoul, creating a U.S. presence here that is less of a burden to the people of the Republic of Korea, and also far more effective and efficient as a force.
In addition, they talked about some of the accomplishments of the U.S.-ROK alliance and the important role that the Republic of Korea is playing in bringing democracy, freedom, reconstruction, stability to other parts of the world, most significantly Iraq, where the Republic of Korea is the third largest contingent after the United States and the U.K., with well over 3,000 troops near Irbil, but also in Afghanistan and in other areas where Korean forces are involved as peacekeepers.
The two leaders agreed that this is an alliance that's built not just on the interests and the immediacy of security challenges in this region, but also built on common values. President Roh went on to emphasize this point, that as a democracy that's been successful in large part because of the strength of the U.S.-ROK alliance, the Republic of Korea is ready to play a role helping in places like Iraq to bring democracy to other states.
In order to look in detail at how the U.S.-ROK alliance will continue to play this kind of role not only on the peninsula and in Asia, but also globally, the two leaders agreed to set up a mechanism between the State Department and the Foreign Ministry here, called the SCAP is the acronym, which basically stands for Strategic Cooperation for Alliance Partnership. It's going to be a comprehensive look at foreign policy and security policy, and how to enhance the role that the ROK-U.S. alliance plays. They talked about North Korea, of course, and agreed that the September statement of principles in the Beijing six-party talks has to be fully implemented, and that its core is the complete elimination of North Korea's nuclear weapons and nuclear programs. But they also talked about other aspects of that agreement. One of them is the discussion about a peace mechanism to replace the armistice that ended fighting in the Korean War, and also about creation of mechanisms for regional cooperation, building on the model of the six-party talks, to address security issues into the future.
They compared notes about the situation in North Korea, and about the condition of the North Korea people, and agreed that they would seek ways to improve the condition for the people of the North. President Roh gave a readout about his strategy for North-South reconciliation, the peace and development strategy, and the President -- President Bush expressed his support. They agreed that they'd have close cooperation and coordination, and that this North-South process, and that the six-party talks and the nuclear diplomacy and the other issues that were framed up in the September agreement should all be closely coordinated and make sure we're going for the same result, which is a lasting peace in the peninsula and complete end to North Korea's nuclear programs and an improvement in the situation for the people of the North.
Beyond that, they had a very far-ranging discussion about trends in the region and on the peninsula, and about APEC, where the President is looking forward to building on the good work that the Republic of Korea has done as host to enhance trade liberalization bilaterally in the region and globally with the Doha Round.
In the afternoon, the President met with Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi of Malaysia. He talked with Prime Minister Abdullah about counterterrorism, where Malaysia has been a stalwart ally. He asked Secretary Rice to brief Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi about her trip to the Middle East and the progress that was made on her trip. This is something that's important to Malaysia, and Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi explained that in his role as chair of the Organization of Islamic Conferences, as someone who is trying to seek an articulation of Islam with development and economic growth, that it would be helpful for him, because he could now explain to his colleagues in the OIC and elsewhere the progress that's being made in the Middle East, and the dedication that the President has to making progress.
They talked about avian influenza. This has been a theme in a lot of the President's discussions. It's a main theme for APEC. And they talked about the meeting that they're going to have tomorrow, when the President will visit with the seven leaders of the Southeast Asian nations who are in APEC, the Presidents and Prime Ministers of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, where they'll address a lot of these same issues. And that's tomorrow morning.
Let me let Faryar give you a bit more on the APEC agenda for tomorrow.
MR. SHIRZAD: Thanks, Mike. As you all know, the President is here also to participate in the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation forum. This will be the 13th leaders meeting under APEC. The organization started in 1989, and the leaders have been meeting since 1993.
The APEC event includes leaders of the 21 economies of the Asia-Pacific region. This is East Asia and the Western Hemisphere. Obviously, the Koreans are hosting this year, and thus far have done an excellent job. And we're thankful for their hospitality.
The President will participate in two days of activities under the auspices of the APEC meeting. The sessions start formally tomorrow among the leaders, where in the afternoon they'll participate in, first, what they call a retreat, which will focus on the issues of trade and economic integration in the region.
We expect the leaders will focus on what are known under APEC as the Bogor goals, which are the broader goals that the APEC leaders established back in the '90s to promote free trade among developed nations in the APEC -- among the APEC economies by 2010, and free trade among the developing economies by 2020. And under that broader auspices, the APEC leaders will talk, I expect, primarily about the Doha negotiations under the WTO and what the APEC leaders can do to advance those important negotiations. They'll talk about trends in the region, on free trade agreements, and they'll also talk about the mid-term, what they call the mid-term stock take of the Bogor goals, essentially tracking the progress that's been made, but then more importantly what can be done further to advance the objectives of free trade in the region by 2010 and by mid-2020.
That session tomorrow will be followed by a meeting of the leaders with representatives of the ABAC. This is the APEC Business Advisory Council. The ABAC is a formal advisory body that gives advice and makes recommendations to the APEC leaders at these summits. Each country appoints three -- up to three business leaders who meet regularly over the course of the year, and then at the leaders meetings come forward with a set of recommendations for the leaders on a number of issues, primarily related to how to advance the goals of increased trade, making the APEC region more business friendly, and then I think this year we expect the ABAC to make a number of recommendations and comments regarding disaster preparations, including with regard to avian -- the threat of avian influenza.
Friday's events will be capped off by a cultural dinner. This will be a non-working session. It's a large dinner that the Koreans will host.
And then on Saturday, the leaders will start in the morning with a second retreat, which will focus on the issues of security. Over the last several years APEC has added very much to the economic focus that it has had from the beginning to tackle issues of security, and that work continues at this session, at this meeting, and the second retreat of the two that the leaders will have will focus on the security agenda. What we expect at that session is for the leaders to talk about what the APEC leaders can do, and what the APEC economies can do to deal with preventing, preparing for, and ultimately responding to disasters, including, in particular, this year, avian influenza. We expect the leaders to talk about issues relating to energy security, counterterrorism, nonproliferation, and also how to deal with the challenge of corruption.
The second retreat on Saturday will then be focused by -- will be followed by a lunch. This will be a working lunch. There's no topic that is currently set, but the leaders will typically take the items, whatever items of unfinished business that remain from the first two retreats and continue their discussions over lunch. Then they'll have a photo of the leaders, and then a presentation of the statement that will be made in an event in which all 21 leaders will participate, and the Korean leader, as host, will convene.
We are looking forward to the APEC session -- the President is looking forward to the APEC meeting for a number of reasons: One, it's a good opportunity for him to meet with counterparts in an important region of the world; second, it's an opportunity for the President to -- and this government to reaffirm our commitment to APEC as an institution. APEC is a core institution in the region, does very strong work on a number of agenda items, and this meeting is an opportunity to reaffirm our interest in and our support for that organization.
And finally, the leaders meeting gives a good opportunity to continue the ongoing good work that APEC has done on a number of items, in both the security and the economic realm. As you all may already know, APEC consists of more than just the leaders meeting that occurs once a year. There's a series of ministerial and sub-ministerial meetings and working groups that occur over the course of the year, and we're looking forward to the work that comes both out of this session, and also to the work that will continue to come out of APEC over the course of the year through the various mechanisms that exist under that body.
The President will also do two bilaterals tomorrow, the details of which and the substance of which we'll have to give you a readout on tomorrow -- I mean, on Friday after they occur. He'll be seeing the President of Russia tomorrow morning, and he'll be meeting with a number of Western Hemisphere leaders tomorrow, as well. In terms of specifics of what they intend to talk about or any readout, we'll have to give you afterwards.
Q Mike, on the Abdullah meeting, did they talk about Burma at all? And did they talk about U.S. participation in air patrols to fight piracy off Malaysia's shores?
MR. GREEN: They didn't really talk about pirates, although that is an important issue in the region and one where, within ASEAN and also the U.S. and other partners there has been increased cooperation and surveillance.
Yes, the President did raise Burma and will do so again tomorrow when he meets with the ASEAN leaders. It's a very important issue for him. When he was in Washington before leaving, he met with Charm Tong, who is a young activist for the Shan people, and heard her personal story about some of the deprivations caused by the regime, not only on minority ethnic groups like the Shan, but on all people in Burma. It's a high priority for him and one of the topics he will address with leaders from Southeast Asia and from Northeast Asia. It is -- Burma is not an agenda item on APEC for the leaders meeting, but it is an important issue for him that he'll raise with the leaders.
Q When you say you brought it up -- when you say that he raised it, was it the same thing that Dr. Rice did, scolding ASEAN for not doing enough on Burma? What was the substance of that?
MR. GREEN: No, he didn't scold. He didn't scold. The direction that the regime in Rangoon -- I suppose I can't say Rangoon anymore because they moved their capital. The direction they're going not only geographically, but in terms of treatment of their people, is not positive. I think that's something that's recognized throughout this region. And the President is interested in having a frank discussion with leaders who have influence on that regime, on how we can collectively try to improve the situation for the people there.
Q Could you tell us -- two leaders conversation about Japan at lunch, between President and Korean Roh Moo-hyun?
MR. GREEN: The lunch was a social lunch, and I'm afraid I wasn't there; we don't have a readout. But it was, I am told by the few participants who were there, primarily social and talking about, for example, Gyeongju and things like that.
Q What, specifically, do you expect or want to come out of the APEC meetings on avian flu?
MR. SHIRZAD: Well, what specifically will come out on avian flu we'll have to see, depending on how the leader meetings go. But there's an ongoing agenda that we have that was launched essentially by what the President did at the U.N. in September in terms of getting countries around the world, and I think the Asia Pacific region, in particular, focused on doing things to be prepared for and prevent an avian flu outbreak, and if one does occur, being prepared to respond to it. And so there's an ongoing work plan that we have coming out of the U.N. meeting, and then both in terms of our bilateral contacts -- and APEC is a good forum in which the region, in general, could come together and work on avian flu. But the specifics of this we'll have to see after the leaders meeting.
Q Do you envision like a dollar amount, timetable for goals -- are we talking that level of specifics, or more general sense we need to work together on this?
MR. SHIRZAD: I would not expect anything in terms of dollar amounts, but we'll see. In terms of anything beyond that, we'll have to see.
Q Are you expecting, or how important it is to get a strong statement out of the APEC meetings regarding agricultural subsidies, abandoning agricultural subsidies, in the direction towards Europe and in preparation to the next Hong Kong negotiation round?
MR. SHIRZAD: Well, trade is going to be a focus of the APEC meeting. APEC has, because of the nature of the economies that participate in the APEC process, has always been as an institution a powerful voice in the WTO process. The APEC economies played an important role throughout the launch of the Doha development agenda, had an important role in helping revitalize the Doha negotiations after the failed Cancun ministerial. And we expect the leaders to focus on what they can do to make sure the Doha negotiations go to a successful outcome by the time the deadline approaches at the end of 2006.
In terms of anything particular they do at this meeting, we'll have to see what actually comes out of the meeting. I think we're much more -- very much focused on results in the negotiating process at the WTO, itself. If something comes out of the APEC meeting that's specific on advancing the negotiations, that will be constructive, but our primary focus is on making sure the negotiations, themselves, in Geneva, and more broadly, go at as quick a pace as possible.
Q So there was no comment or trial by the President to set aside the past for the more friendly Japan-South Korea relations?
MR. GREEN: The interesting thing about this discussion between the two Presidents was how much it was oriented toward the future. They talked about all the things I mentioned earlier in my briefing: reviewing the accomplishments that we've made in strengthening the alliance; looking at how to ensure full implementation of the September agreement of the six-party talks and all the things that flow from that. But much of their discussion was very much a future-oriented discussion about where the two leaders thought this region was headed, not only on the Korean Peninsula, but more broadly. And one of the things that they agreed on was an important underpinning would be a strong U.S.-ROK alliance, and also that that alliance would be based on both countries' interests in a time of rapid development in Asia, but also on common values. And in particular, the President -- President Roh took note of the President's -- President Bush's speech in Kyoto and agreed with much of the thrust.
Q Following the question on the agricultural subsidies. Do you expect or do you ask for a call to the EU from the --
MR. SHIRZAD: As you know, the negotiations on the WTO front are at a crucial time. We're just a little -- a few weeks away from the Doha ministerial meeting, and then about 14 months away, or less, from what should be the conclusion of the negotiations in 2006. The President, first in September, and then followed up by his Trade Representative, have laid out a very ambitious, very bold proposal on agriculture that complements similarly ambitious proposals that the United States has put forward on services and manufactured goods. And we are very much of the view that the rest of the world, the European Union included, has to step forward and respond with the same level of ambition that we've laid out so that the full potential of the Doha negotiations, including the development potential of the negotiations, can be achieved.
So that's an ongoing, I think, dynamic that exists right now in the negotiations. And I think we have, because of the President's leadership and boldness, essentially put the rest of the world in a position where I think they understand that we need to all step up now to produce real results, and that includes the European Union, as well as others. So there's no particular focus, just on the Europeans. I think the focus is much more broad than that.
Q Yes, two questions for Mike. When you talked about the future this morning in the bilateral, how far did -- how did South Korea see the rise of China in that discussion? And secondly, when you're discussing tactics about how to resolve the six-party talks, how did you discuss what you want China to be doing and whether they're doing enough to use their leverage?
MR. GREEN: On the first question, I think in Kyoto with Prime Minister Koizumi, in Gyeongju with President Roh, the President has had very interesting strategic discussions about where the region is going. And I think in both those discussions, it would be fair to characterize the view that emerged of China's future as one of optimism.
President Roh, though, made it very clear that because so much about the future of Asia is still to be written, it was critically important for the Republic of Korea to have a strong alliance with the United States. And this was, of course, the sentiment that President Bush agreed with; it's one of the reasons why the two leaders asked the Secretary of State and the Foreign Minister to set up this new mechanism to start thinking through how our alliance would play a role into the future in this region and globally.
And on the six-party talks, it's been a long day. You're going to have to help me.
Q Whether you discussed the role of China and the tactics.
MR. GREEN: Not in a specific way. The two leaders talked about the dynamics in the talks and agreed that the multilateral process represented by the six-party talks was the best way to try to get a lasting agreement to end North Korea's nuclear weapons and nuclear programs and lay the foundation for a lasting peace on the peninsula.
And this, of course, is -- this is because all of the neighbors, all of those who have equities and also leverage on the Korean Peninsula, are involved. When we get an agreement, it's an agreement that all will have a stake in seeing fully implemented. And I think for the Republic of Korea, it's a process -- the six-party talks diplomacy -- that has great advantage because they're at the table helping to shape the result. It's one of the reasons why President Bush and President Roh think this is a good approach. In the past, much of the diplomacy to try to end the North Korean nuclear program has been truly bilateral. Well, this is a good process for Korea, because the Republic of Korea is at the table, shaping the result, working the issues, coming up with its own initiatives. It's a good process for the Republic of Korea, and it's a good way to get a result and a conclusion that will stick because all the players who have a stake and who have influence will be involved. And they talked about it in those terms.
Q What is the agenda tomorrow for the President's meeting with President Putin of Russia?
MR. SHIRZAD: As I said, unfortunately, we'll have to give you more details on the specifics tomorrow. We just don't have that right now for you.
Q Mike, President Hu said today -- told the APEC delegates today that China's trade surplus is due to global demand and less due to things like its currency. I wonder how convinced the President is that China is moving at an appropriate pace toward full currency flexibility? Can you give us some sense of what the President is likely to say to his Chinese counterpart for the next few days?
MR. SHIRZAD: I think the answer to that is basically what the President said in the Kyoto speech. I think he addressed that head-on, where he said that he welcomed the commitment that President Hu had made in New York when they had met in September to bring more balance in the trade relationship, and also to deal with the problems of intellectual property, just as he had welcomed the announcement and the commitment the Chinese made in July to move to a market-based, flexible exchange rate mechanism. But the key is to see those commitments implemented.
Q Mike, President Roh said that we are scoring more ways we can resolve this issue, with regard to the six-party talks, with regard to North Korea and its nuclear program. Can you talk more about what those ways -- those new ways might be within the framework, I guess, of the six-party talks? And did President Roh, at any point, suggest to President Bush that the U.S. position should be more flexible than it is?
MR. GREEN: No, he didn't ask for a more flexible position, I think because the agreement on the statement of principles in September was pretty clear. It, for the first time, has all six powers, including North Korea, saying that the elimination of their nuclear weapons and their nuclear programs is at the core of this process, and that that has to happen. And the two leaders agreed that it has to happen, and that the North Koreans have to implement it.
But the agreement in September also addresses a lot of the issues we've been talking about for a long time: the conventional threat; the treatment of the North Korean people; trying to find a lasting mechanism for peace in the region. And it lays out, in a way that all six parties agree to, an agenda for implementing all of those things.
So we had a session of the six-party talks -- I guess about a week ago now. That was to build momentum, to take stock and get ready for a session which we expect in the next month or so, at which the parties will start putting down some concrete ideas about how to begin implementing the commitments that were represented in the September agreement.
So when President Roh talks about coming up with some more ideas, I think what he means is that he and the President reaffirmed the broad strategic direction, reaffirmed that that September agreement has to be fully implemented, that it's core is the elimination of North Korea's nuclear weapons and nuclear programs. And based on that broad strategic direction, now the two governments, but also in consultation with Japan, with China and Russia, will start trying to put together a implementation plan to begin doing that and get us further along.
Q Did they talk about any specifics in terms of that implementation plan?
MR. GREEN: No, they talked about -- they reaffirmed the need to implement the September agreement, they talked about the dynamics and -- you know, of North Korea in this region, how to put in place plans and policies among all of the parties that will get us to the objectives that are stated in that September agreement fastest.
It was a strategic discussion, and it provided good guidance for the Secretary of State, for our Assistant Secretary for Asia Pacific Affairs who takes the lead on the talks, and their counterparts in Korea, to start working out the details, and also, of course, in consultation with Japan and the other parties in the talks. But they didn't get into the specific tactics. They set the broad course.
Q In the meeting with the Prime Minister Badawi of Malaysia, did the President ask for any specific help from the Organization of Islamic Conference to stabilize the situation in Iraq?
MR. GREEN: No, the President didn't have any asks, as it were, but the Prime Minister explained how he saw the role of the OIC in helping all Islamic nations succeed, including Iraq, and he described some of the things that Malaysia has been able to do in the past in other areas and what kind of thing Malaysia could do, for example, to help with capacity building in the Middle East, and so forth. So it was that kind of discussion where the Prime Minister was giving his philosophy of what the OIC could do to help in broad terms, what kind of capacity building Malaysia had, without specific reference to specific missions or roles in Iraq, or anywhere else, but what kind of thing the OIC has done, what kind of thing Malaysia has been able to do in terms of capacity building.
And the President gave -- or asked Secretary Rice to give a detailed briefing on her trip so that the Prime Minister could understand how we're trying to make progress and how, indeed, we have made some important steps forward in recent days in the Middle East.
Q Mike, South Korean government had requested to discuss the transfer of wartime commandant -- with South Korean army. Did President Bush any --
MR. GREEN: That didn't come up.
Q According to Kyoto news, South Korean Foreign Minister Ban Ki-Moon told reporters that President Roh Moo-hyun explained his perception about the history of Japanese invasion to Korean Peninsula. So would you tell us more detail, President Roh Moo-hyun explained to President Bush about his perception of history.
MR. GREEN: You know, it's possible some of this happened in the social lunch -- possible -- that was just, you know, the leaders and the foreign ministers and national security advisors. But most of the discussion in the bilateral meeting, while touching on some of the history of competition in Northeast Asia, most of it was focused on the future and where the trends are likely to go and what role the U.S.-ROK alliance should play.
Q Can you tell us what the U.S. assessment is of APEC progress toward the Bogor goals?
MR. SHIRZAD: I think there's a formal report that's going to be issued at this, the formal stock that is the product of a working group that we participated in. So the formal issuance of the report I think will reflect many of our goals. Our focus, however, is very much on the future in terms of what we do to achieve those objectives. And I think front and center of the paths that take us to achievement of the Bogor goals is the successful conclusion of the Doha negotiations. And so as we look forward, Doha is front and center of our agenda of how to achieve those objectives.
We are, at the same time, however, as we have since the beginning of this administration, been pursuing free trade and -- free and fair trade, and trade liberalization through bilateral, regional, and multilateral mechanisms. And so we have ongoing negotiations, for example, with the Thais on a free trade agreement, as we do with the Peruvians, who are also APEC members. So the objective is being pursued through a number of channels and our perspective on it is very much forward-looking.
Q Was there any talk about -- either at the U.S. level or expected in these meetings, about the proliferation of so many bilateral trade agreements, and some corporate executives expressed concern about confusion with so many individual deals?
MR. SHIRZAD: I think a lot of that concern you heard about the proliferation of bilateral and regional agreements occurred in part in an environment where people were not expecting significant progress of the multilateral negotiations. And I think because of the President's leadership and because of what he's done, particularly since his U.N. speech, I think there's a greater sense all around among all participants and stakeholders that the Doha negotiations are moving forward and that they are moving with an honest level of ambition that can help become sort of the defining platform for trade in the region, and then through that, deal with the problems of the proliferation of potentially inconsistent rules.
I think the broader goal that we all have is to achieve trade liberalization and free and fair trade, and that can happen as we have pursued our -- in terms of the U.S. agenda, bilaterally, regionally, and multilaterally. There's nothing inconsistent with pursuing free trade through different mechanisms with a broader goal of increasing prosperity and economic activity and trade. And part of what we've tried to do through APEC is to pursue an agenda of getting the APEC economies to adopt the highest level of standards in the free trade agreements that they do negotiate with on a bilateral basis. So what you'll see on the ongoing APEC agenda is work, for example, to help the APEC economies understand better how to do a better chapter on this element of what would typically be in a free trade agreement, or that element of a free trade agreement.
Q You know, you give us the impression that with the APEC summit there will be a strong endorsement of the Doha objectives. We know that Brazil, within the G20, has exercised strong influence, especially after the Brasilia meeting. So how can you say that Europe is not isolated within this context? After all, these two groups represent the vast majority of world trade, and Europe, you know, seems to be out of it.
MR. SHIRZAD: In terms of what the APEC leaders produce in terms of a strong statement or any other statement on Doha, we'll have to see on Saturday when they finally conclude with their meetings, conclude with their deliberations, and reach a final decision on what they intend to issue on their own behalf. So I think it's premature to say what statement, if any, the APEC leaders will produce, although I'm confident they'll discuss the issue of Doha.
On the issue of whether Europe is isolated, clearly, it's obvious there's a tremendous amount of focus right now on Europe because of the degree to which agriculture is the focus of world attention, and for a lot of reasons, is the focus of the WTO negotiations right now. And people understand that to answer the puzzle of how you solve agriculture in the WTO context, the United States has to be a big part of that, but Europe also has to be a big part of it, as do other economies, such as the Japanese.
But I think the reality is, as we grapple with the issue of agriculture, there are other agenda items that countries have to understand have to be dealt with with an equal level of ambition, and services and manufactured goods are very much on that list. And that means that all economies, all countries -- the United States, Europe, others -- have to show a great deal of ambition on agriculture, but they have to show a great deal of ambition in the other sectors, and they have to do it, regardless of whether they're developed economies or emerging markets. I think the burden is comprehensive on all WTO participants, but it's also -- covers both the developed, as well as the emerging economies.
END 7:54 P.M. (Local)